Conversations
Seeker: Is nothing perfect in the universe?
Bhagavan: It depends on how you view things. You could either say
nothing is perfect or everything is perfect. Perfection or imperfection is only in your thought. As
long as thought is controlling your life there will be opposites; perfect and imperfect, good and
bad, right and wrong because thought is divisive in nature. It postulates the opposites and
compares. Without comparison there can be no thought at all, hence the problem of the perfect and
the imperfect. Where thought is not involved, there is no division, no measurement and no conflict.
It is direct perception. Everything is. The universe is.
Q: Bhagavan, what is the purpose of life?
Bhagavan: The ultimate understanding or the ultimate enlightenment
is, you realise there is no purpose to life, just to live. If you watch a cricket match, if
somebody, India is scoring very well and hitting sixes, then you jump up and shout. Is there a
purpose to your jumping up and your shouting? No, but there is a cause to it, that is joy. Because
there is joy you are jumping up and you are shouting but there is no purpose to your shouting. It
is just there. So this creation is there just because there is too much joy because the stuff of
creation is love and joy. Therefore it is there; there is no purpose to it. You just dance away
because there is joy, what’s the purpose to your dance? You can see lot of people dancing away for
no reason. If you are truly living you won’t ask the question - what is the purpose of life?
Because you are not living you want a purpose to live. And you don’t understand how could you live
without a purpose because you don’t live. If you live as I said, just to breathe is ananda, just to
be is ananda, just to walk is ananda, to drink to eat to talk, look at somebody there is ananda.
That is the stuff of life, which is what we are trying to do for you.
Q: What should we do to attain peace in our lives?
Bhagavan: If you want peace you should not search for it. You must
realize when you put in effort to get peace, that very effort destroys peace. Effort in any form in
the inner world is conflict. You are here; you want to go elsewhere. So, you put in effort. That
effort is the conflict. But if you would realize that effort is destructive and that effort does
not take you anywhere, it would automatically drop. Absence of effort is peace.
Q: Bhagavan, kindly tell me how to experience the suffering of the
other as vividly as I do my own?
Bhagavan: Very often you try to explain away your suffering. You try
to understand. If on the other hand, you stop doing these things, experiencing automatically
happens. Let us say, you are married and your wife is shouting at you, and if you have read a lot
of books on psychology you would try to explain her behaviour, or would be busy trying to
understand her. If you do neither of these, then you actually begin to experience her nagging. That
is when something very strange and beautiful happens. It is only in the absence of explanations,
judgements that we could experience another. That's why in the Movement many have learnt to
experience each other. Hitherto they complained about the nagging of the husband or the wife, today
they are in ecstasy the moment the nagging begins. Hitherto they would run away from their homes,
but now they don't. You could very well start with your intimate relationships.
Q: Bhagavan, where does self-doubt come from? How can I come out of
this self-doubt?
Bhagavan: For this, you must understand the nature of the mind. When
we say the nature of the mind, we are referring to the ancient human mind, not the individual mind.
Since the mind is an illusion and has no real existence, one of its qualities is self-doubt.
Remember, it is not the quality of 'your' mind but 'the' mind. Hence, any attempts to change the
mind would be futile. Once you discover this, there is no more trouble at all. Self-doubt could go
on within the mind and you can watch it. There is nothing you could do about it because that is its
nature.
Q: Bhagavan, I have searched all my life for God. I have attended
many spiritual discourse, seminars, visited all holy places of worship but I have not had an
experience of Him.
Bhagavan: You need not search elsewhere for God. All you need to do
is to look at your own life and you would see Him. Throughout your life the hand of the Divine has
been continuously helping and guiding you. You are just not aware of it. When you reminisce your
life, you would discover there is a higher intelligence, a higher energy, which has been there with
you all the time. When you awaken to this truth, you discover the presence of God in your life.
Q: Bhagavan, should we do away with the mind completely?
Bhagavan: No, you would not be able to survive without the mind
because the mind is necessary. But instead of being functional only when necessary it seems to be
operational all the time. Suppose you are going out in the snow, you might have to wear some shoes.
But if you are going to wear them in the bedroom, in the dining hall, they certainly would be a
matter of great discomfort. The mind does have its place. However, it seems to be all over, all the
time and hence a nuisance.
Q: Bhagavan, I am plagued by jealous thoughts constantly. Though I
try to be non jealous, I am not able to be. How can I become free from jealousy?
Bhagavan: Suppose there is a dog and, let us call that dog -
jealousy. You want to change the dog jealousy to non-jealousy. You behind and the dog in front, you
keep chasing the dog trying to catch hold of it and transform it. Then all of a sudden something
strange happens. You disappear and the dog alone remains. The chase comes to an end. There is no
'you' to become free from jealousy. What exists is jealousy. That is freedom. Here we do not speak
about freedom from this, or freedom from that. We only speak of freedom.
Q: Bhagavan, would practising contentment or being satisfied with
what we have reduce one's efficiency in the world? Is motivation to become popular or famous in the
external world wrong?
Bhagavan: To me nothing is wrong as long as it comes naturally to
you. I believe in two kinds of dharma. One is the dharma of the mind and the other, the dharma of
the heart.
If your heart has not flowered, it means you are functioning within the framework of the mind.
When you are leading a life within the framework of the mind, you must be true to it. The mind
revolves around the self and the self needs expression. The self would love to have money, name and
fame. These come very naturally to the self. The self might even make sacrifices - I don't want
money, I don't want name, I don't want fame. That also is only self-expression because you want
people to love you and to recognize your greatness. You gave up everything and you feel very nice
about it. Whether you feel nice about giving up money or by having money or whether you feel nice
by giving up name and fame or by having them, it is up to you, but it is the same thing. Whether
you give up or go after it, it is the expression of the self. So, as long as you are functioning
within the mind, seeking for name, fame is very natural. Be true to that.
Then there are those in whom the heart has flowered. These people naturally have no attachments
to things. Not that they practise it. It is natural to them because their heart has flowered.
Contentment and satisfaction is their true state. Not that they are less efficient or less
motivated. Only that they do it for a greater cause and not for fulfilling their self.
An elderly person: Of late I have been very insecure about my future.
I am worried what would happen if my health failed me.
Amma: Was there a time in your life when you had no fear? Ever since
you became conscious of the world around you as a child, there has been some kind of fear. Once you
were insecure with regard to your children's future, some other time it was fear of higher
authorities or fear of disrepute. All the time there has been some reason or the other to be
scared. You have assumed that your fear is because of your life situations. The truth remains that
fear does not lie in any situation. There is fear within, which keeps surfacing in various guises.
To see this is wisdom.
Seeker: I am hounded by too many negative thoughts. I am not able to
stop them through the best of efforts. What should I do to stay clear? Will these thoughts block my
awakening?
Amma: Is it possible to classify any thought as being particularly
negative? What exists is fear. Lust, jealousy and hatred are all interconnected and have their
roots in fear. Humanity is ridden with fear, which is flowing through you. What could you do about
it? Is there a door to shut out these thoughts? They come and go. Fighting these thoughts and
digging into them would land you in depression. Get going with your work and help your fellow
humans. All things will fall in place. No matter what your thoughts are, when the time comes, I
will liberate you.
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